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For over three decades, Joel Makower has been at the forefront of sustainable business – shaping conversations, challenging corporate inertia and spotlighting real solutions. From launching GreenBiz (now Trellis) to building communities that drive change, his journey is one of persistence and perspective. In this interview, he unpacks the biggest roadblocks, the role of AI, and what it’ll take for businesses to move beyond "aggressively incremental" progress.

Meet Joel Makower, the Chairman of Trellis Group, has spent over three decades at the intersection of business and sustainability, not just reporting on change but challenging companies to rethink what’s possible.

Sustainability has never been about easy wins. Businesses set bold targets, but when it comes to real transformation, progress is slow—what Joel calls “aggressively incremental” at best. He’s seen it all: the early days when sustainability was a niche concern, the rise of corporate commitments and now, a moment where urgency meets resistance.

From launching The Green Business Letter in the ’90s to building GreenBiz (now Trellis) into a global platform, his work has shaped how companies engage with environmental and social challenges. But he’s also unafraid to call out where they’re falling short.

In our ‘Nine Questions With’ series, Joel unpacks what’s really holding businesses back, why circularity remains an uphill battle, and how AI could be a game-changer—if we use it right. More than anything, he reminds us that sustainability isn’t just about what companies do—it’s about whether they’re willing to change at the speed the world demands. Read on:

Team Reblue: Let’s rewind to the late ’90s: Sustainability was barely a corporate footnote, and “climate tech” wasn’t even a phrase. What convinced you that blending journalism and entrepreneurship could redefine how businesses engage with environmental challenges? Was there a specific “lightbulb moment” where storytelling and strategy collided to spark GreenBiz (now Trellis)? 

Joel Makower: I studied journalism because I didn’t have an idea what I might do with my life, and I hypothesized that reporting and writing would allow me to snoop around different fields. Plus, I love learning how the world works, and journalism felt like a lifelong learning license. I gravitated early on to consumer and business issues. I dived into sustainable business in the late 80s, when I started looking at consumerism and sustainable consumption. In 1991, I launched a monthly subscription print newsletter, “The Green Business Letter.” When the Internet showed up later that decade, I created a knowledge hub on sustainable business, GreenBiz.com, which went live in 2000. (Last year, GreenBiz was rebranded to become Trellis.net.) As such, it was more evolution than lightbulb moment, though one of those bulbs lit up around 1994, when I looked up, recognized where I found myself professionally, recalled my earlier hypothesis about my I pursued journalism, and said — out loud, to myself — “I found it. I’m home.” 

"I have great hopes for AI. Most of our biggest sustainability challenges are extremely complex, wicked problems... The one thing AI does very well is to make sense of such complexity by automating, analyzing, predicting and optimizing. As such, AI can accelerate sustainability solutions."

Team Reblue: After 30+ years in sustainability, what’s one surprisingly stubborn barrier that still keeps you up at night? Not the usual suspects like funding or policy—something subtler, maybe even counterintuitive, that we’re still not addressing head-on. 

Joel Makower: The biggest, most stubborn barrier is, in a word, change. Most of us like the idea of change, but actually changing is really, really hard, whether for an individual, a business or an institution like the government. Even when we know we must change (again, whether personally or institutionally), it’s hard to budge the status quo. That, to me, is the key to unlock sustainability at scale. Oh, and greed, of course, especially by those profiting off environmental destruction — oil companies, chemical companies, purveyors of plastic bottles, Big Ag and the like. They have, individually and collectively, been thwarting progress for decades. 

"Even the leadership companies are being what I'd call 'aggressively incremental' — making numerous tweaks that are necessary but highly insufficient."

Team Reblue: Companies often tout progress on sustainability, but critics argue it’s “re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.” How do you reconcile the need for incremental steps with the urgency of systemic overhaul? What’s a company or leader quietly threading that needle well? 

Joel Makower: I agree with the “deck chairs” metaphor, though I also understand how difficult change can be (see above). I don’t believe any company is meeting the moment — that is, transforming at the scale, scope and speed that’s needed to address the worst impacts of the climate, biodiversity and social equity crises. Even the leadership companies are being what I’d call “aggressively incremental” — making numerous tweaks that are necessary but highly insufficient. True, there are many smaller, purpose-led companies that are doing good work, but collectively they don’t have the impact or market clout of even one large multinational corporation.  

"The biggest, most stubborn barrier is, in a word, change. Most of us like the idea of change, but actually changing is really, really hard, whether for an individual, a business or an institution like the government."

Team Reblue: Tech optimists claim AI will unlock climate solutions, but Silicon Valley’s ethos often prioritizes scale over justice. How do we prevent AI from becoming the next “greenwashing tool” while harnessing its potential for regenerative systems? 

Joel Makower: I have great hopes for AI. Most of our biggest sustainability challenges are extremely complex, wicked problems: transforming our energy systems, transportation systems, food systems, water systems, etc. to address the resource and climate stresses that are before us, and doing so that expands access to the world’s poorest citizens. The one thing AI does very well is to make sense of such complexity by automating, analyzing, predicting and optimizing. As such, AI can accelerate sustainability solutions. Yes, there are huge energy, water, land use and waste management issues, not to mention societal issues like deepfakes, that must be addressed, and we ignore those at our peril. But I’m more hopeful than most of my sustainability peers about AI’s potential to accelerate sustainability solutions. 

"Cimate and biodiversity are not separate issues. They're inextricably linked, and we can't solve one without addressing the other."

Team Reblue: Climate gets headlines; biodiversity remains abstract to most businesses. How do we reframe “nature loss” as a material risk even CFOs can’t ignore—without reducing it to another ROI calculation? 

Joel Makower: The question presumes that climate and biodiversity are separate issues. They’re not; they’re inextricably linked, and we can’t solve one without addressing the other. For example, climate change’s rising temperatures and extreme weather disrupt habitats and ecosystems that benefit humans. Those harms made worse by wildfires, droughts and unchecked human development. Climate change increases ocean acidification, which harms fisheries, and impacts soil health, affecting its structure, composition and ability to support agriculture. Meanwhile, biodiversity loss amplifies climate disruptions — for example, by disrupting forests, oceans and other ecosystems that serve as carbon sinks, or that mitigate against coastal flooding or topsoil erosion. We need to tackle both crises simultaneously through measures like protecting natural habitats, implementing nature-based solutions, and reducing greenhouse gas emissions. It’s not either/or. 

"We are squandering our future in the name of creating wealth for a relatively small sliver of society."

Team Reblue: We’re seeing bands like Coldplay prioritize sustainability—cutting tour emissions, kinetic energy stages, and fan engagement. In your Music Sustainability Alliance role, how can the music industry leverage its cultural sway to turn these experiments into industry-wide norms? What’s still missing to make sustainability the headliner, not just a side stage? 

Joel Makower: First and foremost, the music industry needs to get its own house in order, addressing the kinds of issues companies have been addressing for decades — energy use, waste production, toxic emissions and water consumption, not to mention the impacts of fan travel to music events. Beyond that, musicians can use their platforms to encourage their fans to take actions in their lives and, perhaps, to be politically active as well. At least, in theory. The reality is that most of the major artists these days are terrified of doing these things for fear of being called out, boycotted or canceled in this hyperpartisan world. For a Boomer like me, who grew up in an era when our musical heroes were the ones leading the charge against wars, pollution and racism, that’s a bit tough to reconcile, but it’s obviously a different moment. So, kudos to Coldplay, Billie Eilish, U2 and a relatively small corps or other big acts that dare to take a stand. But they’re still more the exception than the rule. That is, it’s still more of a side stage. At MSA, we’re working to change that by driving collective action and fostering innovation. 

"Most of us like the idea of change, but actually changing is really, really hard, whether for an individual, a business or an institution like the government."

Team Reblue: Sustainability teams often glorify burnout, but Trellis Group events feel like a lifeline where strangers become allies. What’s one lesson you’ve learned about turning exhaustion into collective resilience—and a moment where this community sparked real change? 

Joel Makower: We’ve learned that events succeed in part because of their content and ambiance, but mostly when they create community. At Trellis, we work really hard at doing that. Our annual GreenBiz conference, which draws 3,000 sustainability professionals, has become a must-attend event because people want to be together, to collaborate, commiserate and share. (It doesn’t hurt that it takes place in a warm location in mid-winter.) At all of our events, we design programming to foster community and the results are palpable. We constantly hear that our events re-energize beleaguered professionals. That’s never been needed more than right now. 

"Our linear, take-make-waste systems of commerce are no longer future-fit."

Team Reblue: You’ve advised startups and corporates alike. What’s one under-the-radar innovation or business model in sustainability you’ve seen recently that genuinely excites you? Why hasn’t it broken through yet—and what would it take to scale it? 

Joel Makower: The notion of a circular economy — in which resources continually cycle through with little or no waste — has been around for years but still hasn’t become mainstream. The reason is that it requires massive systemic change, upending the linear systems of commerce that have been around for the past century. Those linear systems aren’t sustainable in a world of 9 billion people, limited resources and a changing climate. We need to operate much like nature does, with closed-loop systems powered by the sun and wind. It may sound like a pipedream, but it’s becoming reality in various locales and value chains — albeit very, very slowly. Critics will argue that circular systems are antiquated today’s world, but quite the opposite is true: our linear, take-make-waste systems of commerce are no longer future-fit. I’ll be the first to admit that realigning our economy toward circularity is extraordinarily hard work. Among other things, it requires transforming value chains and re-valuing resources — energy, minerals, water, etc. — to reflect their true replacement costs. And since systems change is in pretty much no one’s job description, circularity may never reach its full potential.  

"No company is meeting the moment — transforming at the scale, scope and speed that's needed to address the worst impacts of the climate, biodiversity and social equity crises."

Team Reblue: If your life’s work is a prototype for the next generation, what’s the unfinished experiment or unanswered question you hope they’ll take further? And what’s your wildest hope for how they’ll rewrite the rules we’ve clung to? 

Joel Makower: I have no illusions that I have the answers to our global challenges, or that they will even be solved by the generations currently in the workforce. This is difficult, multi-generational work. The unanswered question for me is what it will take for society to wake up — to recognize that we are squandering our future in the name of creating wealth for a relatively small sliver of society. As such, how many “once-in-a-generation” wildfires, floods, droughts and other calamities will it take for the public to recognize the folly of our current systems — and to get angry and active? I’m still waiting to find out.